Curse

IronSheik · Nov 25, 2009, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

Only if your in the business of believing everything you're told.

Sorry, but my main is a primary, I've played through all chapters, in HM, mainly with H/H and the odd PuG and have farmed my arse off to GWAMM. To play a Ranger you need a bit of imagination and versatility. If you believe all the anti-hype then fair enough, but believe me, most of it is absolute rubbish.

Interrupting IS useless in PvE. Tell me, does interrupting a ele bosses earthquake help? Or does throwing PI on it and instant killing it help more?

Granted AoE daze is good just for general protection, single target BHA sucks. 15r, misses half the time, and only single dazes.

My ranger has 24 titles and is the profession I play most in PvE, and they can do anything, sure, but if I want to run a hammer I have a warrior that does it twice as good.

They can do high single target damage, but any class can do it way better.
They can do AoE conditions, but that sucks in PvE, a necro can do it way better.
They can do single target daze, but so can technobabble on any character, or better yet I can AoE daze every 2 seconds with a mesmer
They can barrage, but you need a tank to hit more than 1-2 targets at a time, and if you can do that, any other class will do way more damage.

Betrayer of Wind · Nov 25, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

You people limit yourselves to the very common BHA/Splinter barrage/condition spread,but theres alot more than that,especially in PvE.

Try running a dagger ranger,much more resilient than a sin,perma-block stances if you want,and even better energy management.

100blades ranger can do just as good as a warrior,since the actual dmg from 100 blades isnt really high to be made a diference on 12/14 swordmanship.

Turret rangers do extremely high armor-ignoring dmg in pve,and don't tell me spellcasters outdmg them in single-target dmg,because they dont.

Save yourselves spam,just throw in Triple shot,and maybe forked/dual if you feel like it to keep it up with very little downtime.Then put some external buffs like splinter weapon(from a rit,not you) and watch things blow up.

Rangers useless?maybe for the common pug sense yes since they only care about SC,for balanced play they can fit various roles with extreme efficiency.

Tenebrae · Nov 25, 2009, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Interrupting IS useless in PvE. Tell me, does interrupting a ele bosses earthquake help? Or does throwing PI on it and instant killing it help more?

Because is preventing aoe damage and maybe someone of dying ? and yes , interrupting is not useless in PvE. Maybe not effective as hell but far from useless .

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Granted AoE daze is good just for general protection, single target BHA sucks. 15r, misses half the time, and only single dazes.

BHA always have been BS , only ppl who has near to 0 ranger experience/knowledge uses it in more than 5% of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

My ranger has 24 titles and is the profession I play most in PvE, and they can do anything, sure, but if I want to run a hammer I have a warrior that does it twice as good.

Maybe because Warrior are made to wield a hammer lol ? and thats Rangers fault? meeeeeeeeck wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

They can do high single target damage, but any class can do it way better.
They can do AoE conditions, but that sucks in PvE, a necro can do it way better.
They can do single target daze, but so can technobabble on any character, or better yet I can AoE daze every 2 seconds with a mesmer
They can barrage, but you need a tank to hit more than 1-2 targets at a time, and if you can do that, any other class will do way more damage.

- Not "way bettter" , just better.
- If you use a necro only for condition spreading you are doing something wrong
- BHA sucks like said above yes
- Or little good positioning and no , if a Splinter barrage hits 3+ targets no , not ANY other class will do way more damage.

Just to point out the irony of thinking that a versatile class made to fill the role/function gaps of a party is useless , totally nonsense ....

Daesu · Nov 25, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betrayer of Wind

Rangers useless?maybe for the common pug sense yes since they only care about SC,for balanced play they can fit various roles with extreme efficiency.

Being able to fit various role can be fun from the view of the ranger player, but not necessarily great from the view of the rest of your team.

If I need a particular class to fit a role, I can usually use a hero who is guaranteed not to leave in the middle of a mission and has awesome lag free interrupts.

What does typical pug like to bring? 2 monks, 1 spirit spammer, 1 MM, 1 or more nuker(s), and maybe 1 or more tank(s). A bow ranger doesn't really fit into any of these profiles.

G4ymBoy · Nov 27, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Go on PvX, search the All PvE trial builds for the team build Crackwound. Perfect synergy between Rangers and Mesmers, if someone told you AoE condition suck in PvE they lied.

This build will spread everycondition to foes in the area (including daze). Toss on a barrage ranger too(ew barrage i know) and you have lots of AoE interuption, give that barrage ranger splinter too.

A friend and I have been playing this build in HM with H/H and just steamrolling through everything. It is fun, effective and promotes teamwork(whats that again?). Of course a good "tank" helps in bunching up enemies. This build destroys enemies in the UW, especially mindblade spectres.

Ugh · Nov 27, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirokumatt

Go on PvX, search the All PvE trial builds for the team build Crackwound. Perfect synergy between Rangers and Mesmers, if someone told you AoE condition suck in PvE they lied.

This build will spread everycondition to foes in the area (including daze). Toss on a barrage ranger too(ew barrage i know) and you have lots of AoE interuption, give that barrage ranger splinter too.

A friend and I have been playing this build in HM with H/H and just steamrolling through everything. It is fun, effective and promotes teamwork(whats that again?). Of course a good "tank" helps in bunching up enemies. This build destroys enemies in the UW, especially mindblade spectres.

Link

I don't have much time to look at it, but it looks interesting. Although, wouldn't Burning Arrow work better on the ranger if Fevered Dreams is spreading burning anyway? It would also allow the ranger to invest less heavily in Wilderness Survival and have longer lasting burning.

Chthon · Nov 28, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirokumatt

Go on PvX, search the All PvE trial builds for the team build Crackwound. Perfect synergy between Rangers and Mesmers,...

Well, the mesmer build is (1) decent, (2) pretty old, and (3) originally my invention, derived from a concept by Terraban, so I do sort of know what I'm talking about here. (Yes, a search through the old posts in the mesmer forum will confirm that.)

The ranger build stinks. It adds nothing but weak degen conditions plus a redundant cracked armor and a weakness that could go easily on a necro primary. I thought it was well understood that single-target degen is downright awful in PvE and AoE degen is merely so-so. And yet here's a build basically dedicated to degen. Look, if you're capping out at 20 DPS -- even 20 AoE DPS -- your build has problems.

Everything the ranger does, can be better done by other builds that are often worth bringing anyway. Almost without exception, curse necros pack weakness. JB minion bombers cause bleed and poison incidental to their main function. Warriors/Sins/Dervs cause bleeding, cripple, and DW incidental to their main functions. Etc. The one thing that a ranger can really add that no one else can isn't in your build -- a long-lasting daze. (However, before you do so, remember that (1) daze isn't always needed (see all the BHA hate in this thread), and (2) it will kill your fragility damage.)

TLDR version: The mesmer bar does all the work and the ranger bar is junk.

Kumu Honua · Nov 28, 2009, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Incendiary arrows would be so much better in that build. Especially if you combine it with a 0 wilderness apply poison.

Lishy · Nov 28, 2009, 07:22 AM // 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betrayer of Wind

100blades ranger can do just as good as a warrior,since the actual dmg from 100 blades isnt really high to be made a diference on 12/14 swordmanship.

I remember that build when we did Urgoz. I was skeptical about ti at first, but I remember it worked VERY well and we 45 minuted it.
Mind posting more about it for the community to learn from, as with the other builds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betrayer of Wind

Turret rangers do extremely high armor-ignoring dmg in pve,and don't tell me spellcasters outdmg them in single-target dmg,because they dont.

Save yourselves spam,just throw in Triple shot,and maybe forked/dual if you feel like it to keep it up with very little downtime.Then put some external buffs like splinter weapon(from a rit,not you) and watch things blow up.

Rangers useless?maybe for the common pug sense yes since they only care about SC,for balanced play they can fit various roles with extreme efficiency.

You might also want to look into pet scythe builds.
Pets help very much with energy management and provide a decent bonus damage on top of your already high scythe damage.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/D_PvE_Pet_Scythe
Very much of the build can be modified too. Personally, I'd take off points from expertise, add a beast mastery rune, and raise scythe to 12.
I'd also throw in enraged lunge for the elite over wounding strike since WS has no bonus damage, and deep wound is just as achieved from ER.

It seems to me that rangers are only considered "bad" because it is challenging to make builds for them, or the community is living under a rock for their efficiency on the battle field.
However, on the flip side, Infuriating Heat is a damn good skill to aid the warriors and imbagons. Does anyone know if focused anger and FGJ (PvE) stacks?

Tenebrae · Nov 28, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

Incendiary arrows would be so much better in that build. Especially if you combine it with a 0 wilderness apply poison.

To trigger fragilty ? yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

It seems to me that rangers are only considered "bad" because it is challenging to make builds for them, or the community is living under a rock for their efficiency on the battle field.
However, on the flip side, Infuriating Heat is a damn good skill to aid the warriors and imbagons. Does anyone know if focused anger and FGJ (PvE) stacks?

Bingo.
You mean Focused Anger and FGJ stacking with IHeat ? mmmmm this is what wiki says
"Does not increase percentage adrenaline as stated, but rather gives one additional adrenaline per attack. Does not stack with other skills that have the same effect."
Should give it a test but unless you are running with 2+ adren users that elite dont seem good enough to me.

Ugh · Nov 28, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Very much of the build can be modified too. Personally, I'd take off points from expertise, add a beast mastery rune, and raise scythe to 12.
I'd also throw in enraged lunge for the elite over wounding strike since WS has no bonus damage, and deep wound is just as achieved from ER.

If you take away Expertise, you'll probably need a zealous upgrade to compensate. And without WS, your deep wound isn't AoE anymore and you lose your (lol) bleeding.

Quote:

It seems to me that rangers are only considered "bad" because it is challenging to make builds for them, or the community is living under a rock for their efficiency on the battle field.

I don't consider rangers bad, but I am annoyed at how many of their skills are useless (traps, most nature rituals, etc).

Also, the roles they're best at become significantly less useful in HM PvE, so they're forced into their "Jack of all Trades" position. While they can play almost any role well, they aren't the best at anything in paticular.

Benderama · Nov 28, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

rangers are a well balanced group, like an earlier post said they are one of the more versatile proffesions. they are good all rounders , i had more fun with my ranger just being a bit of a few different attributes rahter than the whole splinter barrage-PvE skill rubbish. i havn't tried PvP but a lot of people say its fun. rangers also seem like the class with a lot of potential, plenty of ways to interupt, do damage, survive longer, spread conditions and alter the playing field through spirits (though i ahvn't tried may spirits).

I guess this is kinda like when people say ritualists suck for no reason when you have powerful heals, good damage (even though SoS requires no brainpower/skill) and a wall of spirits.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 29, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Versatility is nothing when you have 8 people in a party. Everyone needs a specific role, not some crap "its good but not great" role.

A ranger is like a car that can fly and float. Yeah, its a car all right, but it drives slow, has no breaks, and gets 1 mpg. But damn, it can fly just like a plane! And float like a boat!

But dont we already have planes and boats, and just needs a car that drives well?

Notorious Bob · Nov 30, 2009, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Versatility is nothing when you have 8 people in a party. Everyone needs a specific role, not some crap "its good but not great" role.

A ranger is like a car that can fly and float. Yeah, its a car all right, but it drives slow, has no breaks, and gets 1 mpg. But damn, it can fly just like a plane! And float like a boat!

But dont we already have planes and boats, and just needs a car that drives well?

Funny, but a little bit rich coming from a Rt/- who's skill bar probably never changes from the cookie-cutter spammer 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8

Seeing as way more people H/H than PuG, the player becomes a very specific role.

As a Ranger it then comes down to the player which sub-profession he wants to choose with spiker/interrupter/condition spreader/trapper/beastmaster all having perfectly valid places in PvE both in NM & HM.

Sorry, but it's way to easy to post a thread in each and every profession forum stating "<profession> useless" and wait for the flame wars to start. You can easily make an arguement that every single profession is useless on some grounds or other.

Even one dimensional SF sins are uselss if what you're looking for from GW is to actually play the game rather than watch a cookie-cutter, thoughtless, imaginationless toon kill things.

Sadly, Anet's nerfing of the EW screwed the trapper quite badly. Ah, how I remember trappers being wanted for every PuG going into The Deep

MisterB · Nov 30, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Sadly, Anet's nerfing of the EW screwed the trapper quite badly.

It really didn't. We've had this discussion before though. Energizing Wind is not a trap; it is energy management that is unnecessary for trapping effectively. Effective trapping is mostly an oxymoron.

IronSheik · Nov 30, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Funny, but a little bit rich coming from a Rt/- who's skill bar probably never changes from the cookie-cutter spammer 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8

Because the prof listed on guru is all people play amirite? Mine is listed as necro, and my mains are my ele dervish and ranger, I never even play my necro, gtfo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

As a Ranger it then comes down to the player which sub-profession he wants to choose with spiker/interrupter/condition spreader/trapper/beastmaster all having perfectly valid places in PvE both in NM & HM.

Where does interrupting (On a ranger) come into play in PvE?

In normal mode preventing the enemies from doing something is useless when you could have killed them instead.

In hardmode cast times are halved and attack times are at 33%, so unless you have single digit ping and know when the AI are going to use something in and out, and can hit thru 20 FC on the mesmers, then I guess interrupting is good.

As well as condition spreader/trapper/beastmaster?

A lot of areas in PvE contain fleshless monsters, so the status quo of poison/bleeding is useless, which it is even on fleshy monsters.

The only condition worth it in HM is cracked armor, which is done thru one necro skill on just about anything except a ranger.

Trappers faded when better options came out with various buffs/nerfs/eotn.

Beastmasters fail due to stupid AI of pets, only thing good about them is a shitter tank and a skill that enables upkept IAS.

TL;DR You're wrong.

Ugh · Nov 30, 2009, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Funny, but a little bit rich coming from a Rt/- who's skill bar probably never changes from the cookie-cutter spammer 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8

You can tell a lot about a person by what they list as their primary profession on guru. e.e

Quote:

Seeing as way more people H/H than PuG, the player becomes a very specific role.

This is actually a pretty good point; the Jack of all Trades status can be both a blessing and a curse. But, generally speaking, a player will need to group with other players for high-end content.

Quote:

As a Ranger it then comes down to the player which sub-profession he wants to choose with spiker/interrupter/condition spreader/trapper/beastmaster all having perfectly valid places in PvE both in NM & HM.

Spiker - Kay
Interrupter - We already went over this, rupts suck in PvE.
Condition Spreader - The only useful condition spreading I've seen from a ranger in PvE is from spamming Wounding Strike. All other conditions either aren't worth it or can't be spread effectively by a ranger.
Trapper - Farming = slow and inefficient. General PvE = Possible mental disability. :P
Beastmaster - Even after the buff, pets aren't that great due to stupid AI. Also, Mel's Attack had nice potential, but it's still broken.

Moonlit Azure · Dec 01, 2009, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notorious Bob

Funny, but a little bit rich coming from a Rt/- who's skill bar probably never changes from the cookie-cutter spammer 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8

My ranger is my most played character, and is the one I know the most about, strengths and weaknesses. Me and my brother started playing in pre on the same account way back. Then when nightfall came out I bought that campaign, played a ranger there for a bit, then bought the rest of the campaigns and rerolled a new ranger which is over 3 years old now.

People move on, and the ranger just isnt fun anymore. Its not like I play guild wars anyway. The whole game gets dull real fast if you want my honest opinion.

G4ymBoy · Dec 02, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Well, the mesmer build is (1) decent, (2) pretty old, and (3) originally my invention, derived from a concept by Terraban, so I do sort of know what I'm talking about here. (Yes, a search through the old posts in the mesmer forum will confirm that.)

The ranger build stinks. It adds nothing but weak degen conditions plus a redundant cracked armor and a weakness that could go easily on a necro primary. I thought it was well understood that single-target degen is downright awful in PvE and AoE degen is merely so-so. And yet here's a build basically dedicated to degen. Look, if you're capping out at 20 DPS -- even 20 AoE DPS -- your build has problems.

Everything the ranger does, can be better done by other builds that are often worth bringing anyway. Almost without exception, curse necros pack weakness. JB minion bombers cause bleed and poison incidental to their main function. Warriors/Sins/Dervs cause bleeding, cripple, and DW incidental to their main functions. Etc. The one thing that a ranger can really add that no one else can isn't in your build -- a long-lasting daze. (However, before you do so, remember that (1) daze isn't always needed (see all the BHA hate in this thread), and (2) it will kill your fragility damage.)

TLDR version: The mesmer bar does all the work and the ranger bar is junk.

Instead of typing all that you could have just taken the post as a suggestion on a fun build that is effective. But you must know its effective since you created it right?. It could not have been used before by any other person before you, I forgot about that sorry.

Ignore this 07 member and try the crackwound build, i'm am sure there are far more efficient builds, and if you feel you cannot have a less than optimal build then listen to this person who cannot have fun.

@Chthon: Not trying to piss you off, you need to lighten up. I rarely see a positive post from you.

Aldric · Dec 02, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

There are very few times where the absolutely best and most efficient class/build is required in PvE and you can therefore run whatever fun build you feel like. PuGs never ever request or require optimal team configurations, except in elite areas, and ive never had any real issue getting into a party with a ranger.

Alot of peoples fun builds however are utter shite but It is possible to play something which is fun but also very effective.

I have primary damage dealing chars (W/D and P) all of which i have run as secondary on my Ranger. Are they as good as the primary ? In most cases No. I have lower basic armour and output less damage than the primary. Thats pretty obvious but what is relevant is how debilitating those differences are.

The base armour reduction is largely irrelevant in my view. Some may disagree however I find it makes little difference. Once in a blue moon i may die due to the extra 14%(?) damage not being reduced but its very infrequent and according to my guild monks there is no real added pressure on them with a party member being a R/x rather than being a primary W/D/P

The reduction in damage output is noticable for many builds but i don't think it is anything like as inefficient or as large a difference as has been mentioned in this thread. Any build that can do triple digit DPS is absolutely fine in my view for both NM and HM and a R/W, R/D and R/P can achieve that without too much bother.

A good Warrior build might be a 180MPH Porshe 911 and it'll rip the shit out of my little 155 MPH Boxter but PvE is a road with a 70MPH speed limit so who really cares. A misson might take 30secs longer but meh, i can live with that to run something i enjoy more.